Melissa Torkizadeh is a final year medical student at King’s College London. She shares her experience as a consulting intern at Candesic during her elective, and how the clinical and the consulting can compliment each other.
Y: Who are you and what do you do?
M: I’m a King’s College London student, currently finishing my final year, starting F1 this coming August. I intercalated in medical sciences with gastroenterology and hepatology at Imperial College London.
My interests relate to building a career that combines both clinical medicine with the business and managerial side.
I became very interested in hospital leadership and management while conducting quality improvement projects during my placements. These inspired me to want to undertake an internship in consulting.
We often feel that we are making a difference, on a one-to-one level, on the wards and out in GP practices. But in consulting, I realized that you can make differences and changes higher up, and influence how patients are treated, on a larger scale.
This is something that we don’t always consider as medics before we consider leaving the NHS and going into another career.
Y: You’re working at Candesic – what does your intern role involve? Who are they and what do they do?
M: There’s different types of consulting firms. Candesic is what they call a boutique consulting firm. So they’re specialized in life sciences and healthcare consulting.
Essentially, there’s a team that works together. We’ve got a mixture of people, with financial backgrounds, as well as lots of scientists. We’ve got PhD doctors in neuroscience, immunologists, biomedical scientists, and medical doctors as well.
Everybody comes together, and it’s really helpful having expertise from different areas contributing to projects.
As medics, we are on the front lines, and we can see how things work out in community and in hospitals. We have a different perspective to, perhaps, the people with financial backgrounds or business background. If they suggest something, we can talk about the feasibility of it and perhaps what people on the shop floor would prefer.
That’s something that we can bring to the role, as people with medical backgrounds, in direct terms of what the firm does. With the focus on healthcare and life sciences, our projects are mainly centered in those areas.
They also work within different European firms. It’s an award-winning firm as well!
As an intern, your role involves any of the different projects currently going on, and there’s a fast turnover of projects. There are deadlines that have to be met – you might be working on one particular topic, one day but in a few days time, once that project is done with, you’re moving onto an entirely different topic.
Health tech, medtech, these are some of the main pillars of the work that’s being done here. We work work with top NHS firms, for example, and European healthcare providers as well.
In terms of the intern role, you are typically scheduled onto a specific project and you work alongside that team. As the intern you use your research skills to help produce the background research behind the project.
For example, if they give you a broad topic, your role is to research how many companies are out there in this field, and what they do. There’s a lot of market research involved. This is where we actually help a lot, as people with medical science backgrounds!
It’s the same skills you use doing a medical literature search, and there’s a lot of PubMed that we’ve been using as well. So it took me way back to my BSc!
Y: In terms of the practicalities of your internship, how long is it going on for? How are you balancing it with fifth year?
M: I’m doing it as part of my elective period. The internship lasts for four weeks, but normally you can do longer periods, and in general I advise people to apply earlier and do a summer internship.
There’s more projects in the summer and it’s a great chance to network and make contacts before you consider fully moving into the field. You might realize that consulting is not what you want to do, but by working in this environment, you may pick up skills that you realize you’re actually really good at, which you may not have discovered otherwise!
You may realise that it may apply instead to another part of a clinical career. For example, lots of senior management figures in the NHS don’t have clinical backgrounds and this is something that is really, really needed going forward, looking at leadership managerial roles.
As a clinician who comes here, experiences the business side of things and sees how things work from a different perspective, you can go back and apply that to the hospital side of roles, or even become a GP with a business background.
I think it’s so important for medics to experience some healthcare consulting because we don’t get taught a lot of the business side of things and we need to be able to understand the terminology behind it, how it works and who to contact, perhaps if you need help with funding as well.
Y: What did you need to do to get your elective authorised?
M: You have to declare it. They may call you in for a meeting to discuss why you want to do it, but I think if you are clear about how this may fit into your future goals going forward, and talk about what you really hope to gain from it, then it should be fine.
Be really clear as to why you want to do it, not just because everybody else is doing it! I wrote an article recently about healthcare consulting for doctors and medical students, and in it I discussed what we can gain and develop from these kinds of experiences.
Another thing to mention is that when we go to medical school, we work all these years to work in the NHS. But no one teaches you how the NHS is organized, and what goes on behind the scenes. You’re just taught that this is the system that you have to work in.
By being here in the last four weeks, I’ve learned so much more about the structure of the NHS – the different trusts, what the difference is between different types of trust, the roles of the new ICBs, CCGs and what the CQC does too. You’re not taught about this in med school.
Coming here has given me a different perspective, and it allows you to put things together, with perhaps a project that you’ve done in the hospital, or other clinicians that you’ve spoken to.
Moreover, we think that we don’t have anything to offer in these settings, but a lot of the time we are using the same skills as on the wards!
You use the skills, you go onto the wards, you find out the information from the patient by taking a history, you then report your findings to your senior handover-style in a concise manner. You have to decide which investigations to do, what the management plan is. It’s the same skills!
You do the research behind it, you work with your team, you report back your findings – it’s not different in that sense at all. The skills that we have in dealing with all of this, as well as to deadlines, and under pressure, is something that is going to be so applicable here as well.
Essentially the key skills are research-based, you break down the issue and then you strategize it and then you have to present back effectively. You’re doing that on a day-to-day basis in wards or clinics.
You might feel less supported as a junior back in the hospital, but it’s the same principles that we use – they come so naturally to medics whereas people with other backgrounds may have to work to gain them. We don’t think about it because it’s instilled in us from the start.
Y: What are the key three or four skills that someone in your role needs to have?
M: I came into this role with no knowledge of anything consulting related. Even my IT skills were a bit slow, and I’d forgotten certain things.
I think the key thing to have is the hunger to learn because there are people out here who will help you. You are well supported. If you are stuck, for example with Excel, you can ask somebody to help you.
It’s about actually having the initiative to go forward and ask. It’s more about your personal qualities that will make you succeed.
In terms of the transferable skills that you can offer – there are four things: hunger to succeed; innovation; ability to strategize; ability to break down a problem, and these all really help.
Sometimes you are given a task and you think to yourself, oh, OK, this might seem overwhelming – but you need to then break it down to what do I already know? What needs to be found out? What can I find out? Who can I ask for help? Which people are going to be beneficial to help me and help the project go forward? These are all things that are important.
On the strategy side of things – it is really important here is to not be afraid to ask questions. You are not going to know a lot of the stuff and that’s absolutely OK!
Don’t be embarrassed, be confident, but there’s obviously a fine line between confidence and arrogance. It’s about having the confidence to go forward and to say, I actually don’t understand this, could you please explain to me?
It is also about humility as well. Humility is your ability to say I don’t know everything and that’s OK, I want to go forward and explore this. This is how you can help and give back to others.
Y: What process did you have to go through to land the role?
M: So this is when networking comes in. I’d spoken to previous interns who had done their internships here and reached out to them, and asked them what their experiences were.
I can say that out of the other consulting firms, Candesic was flagged up to me as one of the more supportive ones, because it’s a smaller environment, being a boutique firm and you are not necessarily lost in the environment.
They’re used to having interns come in, and used to medical interns in particular, given the fact that the senior partners involve doctors as well. So you are not so lost in it when you join!
Candesic was the best one in terms of community, as well as the mentorship that’s provided.
But I have found, since going through this process, chances are you will get rejected and that’s OK –you’ve got to keep pushing, start early, reach out to people.
LinkedIn is good. Even just emailing firms and asking them about the possibility of doing an internship with dates! Also having a CV put together. A corporate CV is a bit different to a medical CV, but a lot of the stuff you need to involve is quite similar.
It is worth putting down any societies you’ve been on, any roles that you’re doing because they show leadership qualities, which will be relevant here as well.
So network, reach out to people. Don’t be afraid to send applications, emails, cover letters with your CV. If you are put through the next stage, you’ll be asked for an interview – in the interview be honest about what you want to gain from it and show that you are interested in the company.
Do research into their background, into previous projects that they’ve done. By finding that information, you speak to people who’ve been there themselves, and that really helps.
Y: Are any barriers to being a medical student and how can you overcome them in with your CV?
M: It’s not essential to have the corporate CV but having one shows that you’ve done the networking, you’ve researched out there – there’s articles on how to write a corporate CV. Maybe I should write one and post it out there!
But I think for medical students, don’t be afraid to reach out because we do have a lot to offer. These firms are looking for medics and doctors, because of a lot of the skills that we’ve gained.
The rest of it, the business side of things, the Excel side of things, we are perhaps not as up to speed on. That’s fine – they’ve got courses, you’ll learn about it on the job. Whereas seeing things on the shop floor and acquiring those skills through five, six years of studying, these are the skills we have naturally developed over the years.
Understanding where the problems lie within the NHS is something that we have firsthand experienced. The network of consultants and doctors you meet on the wards through your placements will help you when you come here as well. When it comes to writing articles, you might need a quote from somebody, you might want to know a bit more about the topic.
A lot of the time, I’ve even reached out to previous placement supervisors for more information, or quotes, for articles that I’m writing here as well. These are things that we can bring to the role.
In addition, a lot of the projects, especially in healthcare consulting and research require understanding of medical terminology and being able to filter out through all the information online. If somebody doesn’t have a medical background, they’re going to find that very difficult!
If somebody doesn’t have the medical background, when they do the research on a medical topic, they may not be able to pick out the right information and they may just take what they find at face value.
Whereas being a medic, you understand the terminology, you can read between the lines and get a better understanding of what the product is and who it’s for. I think that was the most important thing that I learned here!
Another thing is we aren’t taught about is business skills. Whether you decide to continue as a doctor, or leave the NHS and create your own startup, these skills train your brain to think outside of the box and outside of the NHS.
It might inspire you to begin your own startup. It might open your eyes to contacts you have that you can use. These are the areas where things are lacking. And that comes from talking to people and the contacts you make.
Y: Were there any courses or resources you engaged with before you came to Candesic?
M: I actually didn’t do any prep before I came in! The only thing that I did was speak to previous interns here and reach out via LinkedIn.
But otherwise, in terms of the skills, I didn’t do any courses or anything. I think for somebody coming in, if they want to prepare themselves, then first of all, network and ask around.
Then secondly, don’t underestimate what you’ve already done. Think about how those skills are going to be applicable here.
Take the example of when you meet a patient – think about those four things that you know how to do. Those are the same skills that required here as well. And it’s OK if you don’t prep.
Because once you come into the role, no two projects are the same. So whilst you need the same broad skills for each one, you get to jump between different projects and get used to that as well.
As medics, we are always balancing, for example, the compulsory quality improvement project (QIP), research projects, audits, versus your placements, jumping between patients. We are used to that; we are used to the deadlines and the long hours. So that’s nothing new to us!
A lot of the stuff that I found a bit difficult at the start was the business terminology. But I was able to ask people around me in the office; because it’s a smaller firm, you’re all sat together. If I got stuck, I could just ask the person next to me, could you please explain this to me?
I think this is the difference between here, versus some training programs in the NHS, where, because of the pressure they’re under, there’s so little time to teach. This is what the difference is.
At Candesic, I felt that, even though I didn’t know anything, no one shamed me for not knowing anything.
Y: Transitioning from medical school to F1, what doors are open for you right now and what path are you envisioning for the future?
M: That’s an interesting question! Definitely completing foundation years, F1 and F2.
I think, whether you decide to leave medicine or not, having that clinical background and completing the first two years will give you an advantage, in the sense that you’ll have a better idea of what’s going on.
Especially at a time right now in the NHS where they need people with both clinical and business minds. That’s my plan, to do the first two years and whether I decide to remain in clinical medicine or not, using the skills I’ve gained from my experience here. That’s thinking about things from a more business perspective and looking outside of the box when they give you a product and tell you to just use it.
Now, when I go back to the wards, I’m going to think: we’ve got this ECG machine, which company provides it? How many other companies are out there providing it? What makes this one the better company? This is what I mean, it changes the way that you think about things.
This might inspire you to go forward, create a new project yourself. The key thing is that we need innovators right now and going forward digital healthtech is something that is rapidly modernising and rapidly growing.
In the future, our practice will have changed so much. The things we learn in medical school, even the pen and paper tests will be all digitalized soon! We need to keep up with it.
These are the skills that we gain, and it gives you an alternative perspective to when you go back to the wards. What I want to be able to do is make a difference on a larger scale.
Whether you want to become involved in politics, policymaking and become clinical director.
A lot of the time, A&E and AMU consultants must perform a managerial role and become a clinical director and then from there, maybe get involved with medical directorship.
Having the knowledge of both clinical and business gives you and the people that work for you, plus the patients, overall, a better outcome because you know what will work best. This gives you an advantage over those managers that are not involved in the medicine at all.
I think another thing that we need to consider as women here is that there are not that many female figures in senior hospital leadership. Going forward, I think we need more of that.
I want to see a new generation of women who’ll be willing to do that. This all comes from getting involved with leadership positions and these experiences. Even if you decide consulting is not for you, knowing what’s involved in it and what skills you can take from here back to clinics is important.
Y: Do you have any advice for students that might be reading this and thinking: this is the path I want to take. Where’s a good place to get started?
M: I think having an understanding of what consulting actually is will help. There’s lots of articles out there to read, then reaching out to people who’ve done it is the first step to understanding what it involves.
Then, if you are interested in a more leadership management perspective, getting involved with quality improvement projects at your placement sites is actually a very valuable skill. This is because those skills of identifying a problem where you can insert an intervention and then analyze whether the intervention has worked are the same applicable skills to working in consulting.
After that, you connect with leaders in the field. If you are interested in medtech, keep up to date, read lots of journals out there, that can include business journals, look at blog posts from people and attend medtech conferences for example.
Hackathons are also very good as well – to meet like-minded people who can inspire you to come up with your own idea perhaps, and find people to work on it. I went to a hackathon, a couple of months ago, and there was a team of engineers, computer scientists, dentists, doctors, people who doing MBAs, finance people. It was really cool.
Everybody had different skills and experience to bring to the table. When you were stuck with something, you could ask them, and they could ask you questions as well. I think that’s the key going forward.
Also, not to be afraid of reaching out to people! It’s fine if no, you don’t get that reply back on LinkedIn, it’s OK. Or if someone rejects you, ask for feedback and say how can I improve it going forward?
I think getting involved with societies at uni is a great way forward – consulting societies for example. Any leadership position at university really does help because you’ve got to do the networking, you’ve got to learn to create events, be organized. Again, this is all stuff that applies here.
We just do these things so naturally in medicine, whether it’s for the tickbox culture or because we actually want to do it is another question, but we are so used to doing it we don’t think about it!
If you just sit there and think, what have I done? What skills did they require? When did I demonstrate them? You realize that you’ve actually done a lot but you haven’t thought about it because it just happens on a day-to-day basis.
Y: You’ve been awarded for quality improvement projects that you have conducted in the past – what was that all about?
M:That was at my previous placement site, East Kent Hospitals NHS Trust. It was a project looking at handover as part of the Hospital at Night scheme. We were aiming to improve attendance and we worked in a team with other medical students and senior leadership at the hospital such as clinical directors.
It involved information governance, as we had to obtain information looking at Freedom of Information acts. We essentially created two PDSA cycles, looking at improving the handover attendance. This involved presenting to seniors and registrars, interviewing them personally.
This is the whole thing about networking and not being afraid of how someone’s going to react to what you think! Most people are very receptive if they see somebody who’s genuine going forward.
Just be yourself. Don’t pretend to be someone else! Don’t pretend to have qualities that perhaps are not your strength. In fact, identify your strengths – the whole point of leadership is working in a team with others who have different strengths and bringing out the strengths in each other.
